[Mitarbeiter.zoologie] Statistical club meeting - SEM

[Lucie M. Baltz]

Dear Antonella, dear Panas,

thank you very much for elaborating on this topic. The different Points of you are very interesting and definitely something to think about when doing a SEM. 

Best,
Lucie 


(she/her)
PhD candidate
General Zoology
Martin-Luther-University Halle-Wittenberg
Hoher Weg 8
06120 Halle (Saale)
lucie.baltz at zoologie.uni-halle.de

Von: Panagiotis Theodorou
Gesendet: Samstag, 3. Februar 2024 13:55
An: Antonella Soro
Cc: Lucie M. Baltz; mitarbeiter.zoologie at lists.uni-halle.de
Betreff: Re: [Mitarbeiter.zoologie] Statistical club meeting - SEM

Dear all,

It seems that I missed a very interesting seminar....
My view on this is somehow similar to Lefcheck. In the SEM framework the goal is not to find the best model that fits the data. In the SEM, you test a theory and then you consider whether or not the model is consistent with the data. However, in this regard, do correct models really exist? Are there any equivalent or near-equivalent meaningful models or hypotheses? and what about parsimony? 
Since I started using this framework the debate is still on in regards to model selection and goodness-of-fit assessment in the SEM framework and beyond..
In general someone cannot avoid subjective judgement (similar to all statistical methods) that should have a solid theoretical basis.

All the best,

Panas
   

On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 10:34 AM Antonella Soro <antonella.soro at zoologie.uni-halle.de> wrote:
Dear Lucie,

I thank you very much for this material and for your presentation, which was definitively useful in many respects. I understood things I did not understand before.

A couple of hours after your presentation, i have attended the weekly meeting with richard McElreath and asked him specifically about whether it is appropriate to use AIC criteria when running SEM and he reiterated that it is not (his words: “it is wrong”). 

even if less categorically Jon Lefcheck says the same thing:

“Users should take caution when exploring these techniques as to avoid dredging the model. SEM is a technique that relies heavily on informed model specification. Adding paths in that are suggested by the data but not anticipated by the user only in an effort to achieve adequate fit might be appropriate in other applications, but ignore the basic philosophy behind SEM that relationships are based on a priori knowledge and intuition” [italics is Lefcheck’s].

Thanks again and a good week-end to all,

Antonella







On 2. Feb 2024, at 14:19, Lucie M. Baltz <lucie.baltz at zoologie.uni-halle.de> wrote:

Hey everyone,
 
attached it the Presentation and some Paper that might be usefull for you. In my opinion the one from Shipley and the one from Garrido are the most helpful ones.
 
If you want to use SEM, this link will be the most helpful! https://jslefche.github.io/sem_book/index.html
 
Best,
Lucie
 
(she/her)
PhD candidate
General Zoology
Martin-Luther-University Halle-Wittenberg
Hoher Weg 8
06120 Halle (Saale)
lucie.baltz at zoologie.uni-halle.de
 
 
<10705511.2020.1871355.pdf><Ecology - 2013 - Shipley - The AIC model selection method applied to path analytic models compared using a d‐separation.pdf><Methods Ecol Evol - 2021 - Garrido - A model selection approach tostructural equation modelling  A critical evaluation and.pdf><nihms661496.pdf><qt490131xj.pdf><rohrer-et-al-2022-that-s-a-lot-to-process-pitfalls-of-popular-path-models.pdf><s11135-017-0469-8.pdf><Structural Equation Modelling.pptx>_______________________________________________
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-- 
==========================================
Dr. Panagiotis Theodorou
General Zoology, Institute of Biology
Martin Luther University Halle-Wittenberg
Hoher Weg 8, Room 6.10
06120 Halle (Saale), Germany
Phone: +49(0)345 55 26511
Email: panatheod at gmail.com
Web: https://panatheod.wixsite.com/panagiotis-theodorou
===========================================

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